Comparing Our Torture to Japan’s Torture?

Spread the love

This week, Candorville looks at torture, at a president who’d rather ignore it, and wonders what would’ve happened if that president had been at the helm the last time the whole world was focused on the issue of torture. It’s a sensitive issue, and as with all sensitive issues, it’s open to misinterpretation. For the benefit of those who wrongly think the point of this week’s series is that we’re just as bad as Japan, here’s an e-mail I received yesterday. Read it, then read my response which is included below it.

Hello Mr. Bell,

I am an occasional reader of your strip, Candorville. I felt it was necessary for me to voice my opinions about your cartoon published in the Washington Post on May 5th, 2009.

Sir, I happen to agree with your apparent sentiment that waterboarding is a cruel and unnecessary measure in interrogation of terror suspects. I believe that there is no place for inhumane or uncivilized tactics in this or any government or military service. However, I took offense to the way you expressed your beliefs on the matter in your cartoon.

I want to make abundantly clear that comparing the war crimes of the Japanese Empire to the modern practice of waterboarding is foolish and highly insensitive to those who were prisoners of the Japanese in the far east. Just because our veterans of the second world war are dying at an accelerating pace and disappearing does not give you the right to revision history and diminish what allied and civilian prisoners suffered through. Comparing having water dripped over your face to the horrific inhumane brutality that allied POWs experienced is a minor injustice. Waterboarding is not nearly as violent and horrible as being forced to watch your officers executed by beheading, being forced to consume your own excrement, being beaten constantly, often times to death. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese even crudely crucified some prisoners who vocally shared their Christian or Jewish beliefs. The Japanese forced millions of southeast Asian peoples into slave labor in order to build railroads to carry their oppression into India. roughly 11 million southeast Asians and a much smaller number of allied POWs died at the hands of the Japanese as they built these railroads.

There are many other atrocities committed by the Japanese Empire, but you probably get my point.

While I agree with your sentiment, your delivery was downright inappropriate. My Grandfather served during World War II in the pacific theater. I’m sure that if he were alive today, he would share my sentiments.

You do not need to do so, but I look forward to your response.

(P.S. I do enjoy your strip Sir!)

Very Respectfully,

[Name withheld by Candorville.com]
Cadet, Virginia Military Institute class of 2012
Naval Midshipman

And, my response:

Dear Mr. [Name withheld by Candorville.com],

Thanks for taking the time to write, and for occasionally reading Candorville. I’m glad you’ve given me the opportunity to clear up a few things. I’ll try to answer you point by point to make sure I don’t miss anything.

“Sir, I happen to agree with your apparent sentiment that waterboarding is a cruel and unnecessary measure in interrogation of terror suspects. I believe that there is no place for inhumane or uncivilized tactics in this or any government or military service. However, I took offense to the way you expressed your beliefs on the matter in your cartoon.

I want to make abundantly clear that comparing the war crimes of the Japanese Empire to the modern practice of waterboarding is foolish and highly insensitive to those who were prisoners of the Japanese in the far east.”

You’re reading too much into it. The cartoon is not comparing the act of waterboarding to the whole host of Japanese war crimes, it’s comparing it to Japanese waterboarding, and it does so for a reason. As I said on the Candorville website today: Waterboarding was one of the atrocities for which we prosecuted the Japanese after WW2. It’s a fact that we and the rest of the “civilized” world considered waterboarding to be torture. We considered it to be inhumane and sadistic. We did not attempt to dismiss it as “having water dripped over your face.” We considered it so far beyond the realm of acceptable wartime behavior that it deserved to be listed among all the other acts of barbarism the Japanese committed. It was wedged right in there, along with systematic rape, beheadings, and the other sadistic acts you mentioned. Of course, that was when it was done to OUR people. When it’s our people doing it, that’s when we start to rationalize it by saying it’s not as bad as the worst offenses other people commit.

Our government adopted one of the criminal tactics of the Imperial Japanese. THAT, not the person who points that out, is what’s insensitive to those who were prisoners of the Japanese in the far east.

“Just because our veterans of the second world war are dying at an accelerating pace and disappearing does not give you the right to revision history and diminish what allied and civilian prisoners suffered through.”

At the risk of repeating myself, pointing out that Japanese waterboarding was considered a war crime on par with all their others doesn’t diminish anyone’s suffering. Adopting any of the Imperial Japanese’ inhumane tactics (and accepting the Bush administration’s characterization of it as a relatively minor infraction) — that’s what diminishes what Allied prisoners suffered through. Portraying it as something that’s so relatively “minor” that it doesn’t even warrant use as an analogy, that’s what rewrites history.

“Waterboarding is not nearly as violent and horrible as being forced to watch your officers executed by beheading, being forced to consume your own excrement, being beaten constantly, often times to death. Not to mention the fact that the Japanese even crudely crucified some prisoners who vocally shared their Christian or Jewish beliefs. The Japanese forced millions of southeast Asian peoples into slave labor in order to build railroads to carry their oppression into India. roughly 11 million southeast Asians and a much smaller number of allied POWs died at the hands of the Japanese as they built these railroads.

There are many other atrocities committed by the Japanese Empire, but you probably get my point.”

I do, and I hope you’ll realize that in making your point, you’re also making my point for me. We adopted a criminal tactic from people like that. People who also found it perfectly acceptable to behead officers, force prisoners to eat excrement, beat them to death, crucify them, march them til they died, enslave them, etc. THESE are the people we took our lead from. And that is so disgraceful, so important, that we haveto acknowledge it. America has been hiding from this conversation for years. It’s time to stop pussyfooting around it and speak in stark, unequivocal terms.

“While I agree with your sentiment, your delivery was downright inappropriate. My Grandfather served during World War II in the pacific theater. I’m sure that if he were alive today, he would share my sentiments.”

Inappropriate is in the eye of the beholder. Candorville states what I consider to be harsh truths. It is undeniably true that we adopted a torture measure that we had previously condemned when it was committed against our own people. That is a fact. Us doing that was inappropriate. My pointing it out is not. My Grandfather also served during World War II in the Pacific theater (nearly died at Guadal Canal). I’ve been lucky in that he is still alive today. I’m at his house as I type this, making sure he understands the instructions for his new pills before I head home. I showed him your e-mail, and he wants me to tell you that while he appreciates your sentiments, he most definitely does not share them.

If I haven’t changed your mind about the wisdom of my commentary, I hope I’ve clarified my point and that you at least understand where I’m coming from a little better. I have nothing but respect for the veterans of World War 2, and it’s turned my stomach to see our country dishonor them by engaging in the same tactic as the people my grandfather fought against so long ago.

“(P.S. I do enjoy your strip Sir!)
Very Respectfully,
[Name witheld by Candorville.com]
Cadet, Virginia Military Institute class of 2012
Naval Midshipman”

Thanks! And thanks again for taking the time to write.

Respectfully,
Darrin Bell
http://www.candorville.com


Discussion (10)¬

  1. And while the Japanese did far worse to our people than we're doing to anyone, I don't follow the logic of pointing to our volunteers as a "clear indication" that the type of waterboarding Japan used was far and away worse than the method used today by the U.S. Every description I've come across has been virtually identical to what we've done.

  2. VGF05 says:

    One fact that was not mentioned–perhaps everyone was too busy with self-righteous preening–is that "waterboarding" is part of training for some of our own troops…and unless you think that we are subjecting our own soldiers to the same sort of torture that the Japanese used in WWII, this is a clear indication of the fact that the type of waterboarding Japan used was far and away worse than the method used today by the U.S.

    • candorville says:

      That's been mentioned many times, and that excuse ignores a pretty obvious difference: our troops volunteer for this. If you think that difference is a small one, consider this: if two consenting adults stick plunger handles in each others' asses, that's not torture, that's kinky. But if the NYPD holds a prisoner on the ground and puts a plunger handle in his ass (as they did several years ago), I think you'd agree that that's torture. As an aside, I remember when the NAACP complained about the torture of Abner Louima, morally bankrupt talking heads on my TV responded by dismissing those complaints as self-righteous preening. Part of me would like to see what they'd say if it were done to them.

      And while the Japanese did far worse to our people than we're doing to anyone, I don't follow the logic of pointing to our volunteers as a "clear indication" that the type of waterboarding Japan used was far and away worse than the method used today by the U.S. Every description I've come across has been virtually identical to what we've done.

      • Ken says:

        Also, pointing out that some enemy at some point did something worse does not mean that what we have done is right. Darrin's strip may have stretched to make its point, but I much prefer reaching to a higher standard than stooping to the lowest. Bush promoted these wars as a struggle between evil and good–not evil and slightly less evil. He did this for a reason and would have served the nation better if he keep US foreign policy true to the standards he publicly espoused.

        Am I self-righteous? Maybe, but my faith, philosophy, and basic humanity all tell me that a policy embracing torture is wrong. If conservatives can sing the praises of a beauty pageant contestant talking about values while standing before the world with fake breasts packed into an evening gown, people should let me say that torture is wrong without calling it "preening."

  3. Craig Kelly says:

    My father served in the Pacific theatre…I remember once while watching a movie with the Bataan Death March a scene where the guards applied "Chinese Water Torture" to an American prisoner…My father denounced this in vivid terms…It made an impression on me.

    Later I served as first an enlisted man and then as a commissioned officer , via OCS. My experiences showed me that we must have universal service and not a voulunteer army…Too often "regular" army officers, NCOs and EMs would follow, without it seems a questions, orders while the draftees may be more reluctant to or would be more prone to send letters home about the situation.

    Sorry, I'm getting off subject…Thank you for the discussion of this issue…and I want to commend the civility of the cadet.

    • candorville says:

      I have to say, it felt good to read the cadet's e-mails (both the original and the reply). We need more people like him in the military. There's a famous cartoon from World War 1 that shows a headless soldier standing at attention, and the caption is "The perfect soldier." I don't think there's any place in a nation that considers itself the paragon of democracy for a "perfect soldier," whether in the military, CIA, or the West Wing. Democracies should be messy. They should be filled with people like Richard Clark (who resigned and exposed the Bush administration's web of lies that led to war) and Hugh C. Thompson (the helicopter pilot who faced down his fellow soldiers and civilians and stopped the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam).

      Thank you for your comments, you've offered the most compelling reason I've ever heard for compulsory military service.

  4. fatherstorm says:

    The winners write the history books. Plain and simple. That is how something that was abhorrent and savage 60 years ago is a scientific and humane technique today. By the same stroke? Being the only nation to ever use Nuclear weapons in wartime, we also fully support destroying any nation that we believe should not have them, all the while offering scientific aid to countries we don’t mind having them, and pretending they don’ exist in countries we are incapable of attacking. This is neither a defense nor a castigation of our policies, the details make each situation too difficult to paint with the same brush, but does serve to remind us that we actively choose to color a “convenient” truth.

  5. Ken says:

    It's great to see a civil debate with people exchanging ideas and coming to a common understanding. It seems that for years we weren't having many of these debates. The administration and their allies had propagated the idea that simply raising these issues or asking certain questions was unpatriotic.
    Now that we're having these discussions we're starting to see that Americans want to set a higher standard. Let's hope our leaders follow.

  6. candorville says:

    Thanks, Neil. The midshipman replied:

    Mr. Bell,

    Thank you very much for your timely response. It shows me that you value my feedback and that is something that is hard to find these days in the public sphere.

    After hearing you explain yourself and where you are coming from, I can definitely see the point you were trying to make. I missed the point of the cartoon, I felt like you were comparing our modern instances of illegal waterboarding to the entire pantheon of Japanese war crimes.

    I completely agree that our own government's use of torturous acts is highly disrespectful to our veterans who survived imprisonment at the hands of the Japanese.

    "We adopted a criminal tactic from people like that. People who also found it perfectly acceptable to behead officers, force prisoners to eat excrement, beat them to death, crucify them, march them til they died, enslave them, etc. THESE are the people we took our lead from. And that is so disgraceful, so important, that we have to acknowledge it. America has been hiding from this conversation for years. It's time to stop pussyfooting around it and speak in stark, unequivocal terms." After reading this passage that you wrote, I definitely get the point of your cartoon.

    I have been dismayed at the devolution of our government over the years, especially so in the last 8. There are many things that I see that make me wonder if things will ever be put right. I think that's a major reason that I am trying to commission into the Marine Corps and possibly pursue a job in government; if I can make a positive difference instead of letting the scum that inhabits the higher offices of our nation form policy, then I feel like I will have accomplished something.

    there is still a part of me that wished that the cartoon was more clear; if I made the wrong conclusion, then perhaps others did as well.

    anyway, thank you very much for such a swift and thorough response.

  7. Neil says:

    I think that a very well considered, and thoughtful, response. I hope that the midshipman agrees with that sentiment, even if s/he doesn’t agree with your points.
    Neil