Comments on: Just Following Orders, part 5

By: candorville

candorville — Fri, 15 May 2009 22:45:29 +0000

I can be pretty harsh and sometimes I don't give any quarter, but that's just who I am. The other day I was trying to have a casual talk with my niece about her plans for the summer, and my 90 year-old grandfather interrupted to ask me "did you go to law school?"

But I say if you can't cross-examine your own eleven year-old niece, who can you cross-examine?

By: candorville

candorville — Fri, 15 May 2009 19:57:54 +0000

"…especially when the messenger strap a big bulls eye on their chest."

Oh, I expect this sort of thing. I love that motherseer's speaking her mind. I take shots at people, other people take shots at me, and somewhere in the crossfire we all get something to think about. I prefer a reasoned discussion where we each try to understand where the other person's coming from, but unless things get out of hand I'll take what I can get.

By: candorville

candorville — Fri, 15 May 2009 19:51:33 +0000

Um… I appreciate the passionate defense of my constitutional right to be a smartass, but can we please not call people "un-American"? Let's leave that as a relic of the Bush era. At least on my site. =/

By: cedricw

cedricw — Fri, 15 May 2009 19:38:18 +0000

I always thought that was an Aztec calendar.

By: Ken

Ken — Fri, 15 May 2009 15:56:22 +0000

I have no doubt that you could get more out of these terrorists than traditional torture. However, until "evil doers" start posting on Candorville.com we will have to rely on the CIA to get them to change their ways.

You are unrelenting in pressing an issue. However, I've learned that you truly respect those of use who occasionally disagree with you (roughly as much as your 11 year old niece).

By: candorville

candorville — Fri, 15 May 2009 15:43:35 +0000

I can be pretty harsh and sometimes I don't give any quarter, but that's just who I am. The other day I was asking my niece about her plans for the summer, and my 90 year-old grandfather interrupted to ask "did you go to law school?"

But I say if you can't cross-examine your eleven year-old niece, who can you cross-examine?

By: motherseer

motherseer — Fri, 15 May 2009 14:23:09 +0000

This may seem like stretching the argument pretty far, but this is about more than the strip – it's about the question of when do you ignore the theoretical good in favor of the greater actual good? BTW, the torturers did the opposite of this: they ignored the greater, actual evil (many, many bad repercussions for their country in every way) in favor of what they as individuals wanted to do (I hate these guys, they're the bad guys, the POTUS says we can do it, the legal briefs OK it, etc.). Cedric only thinks this is the same as Republican-think because he's thinking too simplistically about it. Not everything is black and white (no pun intended) in the real world, and not everyone who asks that real-world implications be taken into account is a right-wing fascist. That's one of President Obama's great qualities, that he understands all the shades of gray in-between, and how to find where the truth lies among them.

By: motherseer

motherseer — Fri, 15 May 2009 14:22:54 +0000

Why? Because this is an exceptional time in every way, and we must be very, very careful to not be so theoretically righteous that we overlook the real-world implications of those positions. Existentialists still have values and ethics, but sometimes in the real world it comes down to: is stealing always wrong? what about if you're doing it to feed your hungry child? how about lying? what if someone you knew was a murderer, who had gotten away with it in the past, wanted to use you as an alibi – not for the ones s/he had gotten away with, but for a different one s/he actually hadn't committed? would it be wrong to say "no, I didn't see them there" to take a dangerous, evil person off the street?

By: motherseer

motherseer — Fri, 15 May 2009 14:20:24 +0000

I'm very glad to hear you're not insulted by my comments, because they were indeed intended as an argument between "friends," for lack of a better word. I very much appreciate, coming from a family of artists, the role of artist as societal conscience-pricker (no offense); and I do, in fact, agree with the position that everyone in the torture permission-commission chain should (ideally) be held accountable in some way. I did NOT mean that being anti-torture was an extreme position (cough*duh*cough); rather, I was objecting to the characterization of President Obama as a Nazi apologiste due to his efforts to find a way to deal with this that wouldn't automatically enrage & inflame the opposition. And I was also saying that, despite the hallowed obligation (and I'm not being sarcastic) of the artist to highlight societal ills and hold a mirror up to the less attractive sides of the American face, in THIS case I do think an exception is called for.

By: Ken

Ken — Fri, 15 May 2009 13:53:37 +0000

You generally wear your "favorite shirt" well. Sometimes your responses are a little strong. I've learned that those are the product of your artistic flair and your commitment to principle. I can see why some people come away from your posts feeling a little battered.